[kwlug disc.] All of you Ubuntu people

[Rick]

Unsolicited <unsolicited at gto.net> writes:
> Right, but lets remember who Ubuntu is aimed for - the new user, and
> the superficial user who might use it when shown how it's just as easy
> and user friendly as Windows.
>
...
> - I probably want something else on my work / development machine.
>
> - I'm beginning to think keeping the last two roles separate, or
> perhaps having two, a work/professional black box, and a personal
> shoot them critters black box, may be part of the solution to
> restoring my sanity. If that's possible (any longer)!

Summary: So, like to upgrade and fix. Then, Debian.
Might install a package on occasion. Ubuntu.

---

Ok, let me advance a hypothesis. Ubuntu is for people
who buy a finished system and don't upgrade.
You might occasionally install a new package on your computer.
But if the install doesn't work, you blame the package
and move on to other things. Living without the package
is no big deal.

On the other hand, if you are somewhat tech savvy, you'll read the docs
or search on the internet or maybe ever debug the source code.
In this case, you want to enter a web of relationships.

There is a relationship with the "downstream" Debian person
who "packages" a program that they usually didn't write.
This Debian person works with other Debian people
to make sure that the packages all work together.

Then there is the "upstream" creator of the original software
who may or may not be a Debian person as well.
As a serious tech head, you might report things to the Debian person
and, then, go further and talk with the original creator.
You might even get a new version of the software from the source
and compile and install it yourself.

My Mom won't be doing any of that. Even doing an Ubuntu package
install might be pushing it ... unless the install goes perfectly.

More seriously, Ubuntu doesn't have this web of relationships
between downstream package maintainers as well as the upstream
software creators. And when something doesn't work, Ubuntu users
want it fixed and they go to Debian. So Debian does 95% of the
(thankless) work and gets 0% of the credit but 95% of the complaints
when something goes wrong.

But the real issue is that most Ubuntu problems either never happened
to Debian systems. Or were already fixed in Debian so most Debian users
would have done a package upgrade without even bothering
the Debian package maintainers.

In a sense, Ubuntu is building off of this delicate web of relationships
without really offering the real behind-the-scenes elbow grease to keep
a large, complex system working. More seriously, Ubuntu could wreck
this delicate web except that Debian package maintainers either ignore
or loathe Ubuntu users when they report their Ubuntu problems.

So, let's say you just get an installed system and stick with it.
Then, try to install a package on occasion (but quickly give up
if something goes wrong). Then Ubuntu is perfect.

On the other hand, let's say you expect to install all kinds of packages
and upgrade your system any time that you please and you expect
things to work (or at least be fixable). In that case, you have to use
Debian (or go totally do-it-yourself with, say, Slackware).

98% of Windows users neither want to do much upgrading nor do they
even report a bug problem if something goes wrong anyway. For them,
what Debian offers isn't worth the extra hassle to install.

In my case, I have grown used to upgrading and digging deep
to fix most problems. So, in my case, Ubuntu _is_ wrong for me
because I can't post on the Debian bug lists because I'm not running
a pure, true Debian system. Despite all the good things that Ubuntu
offers for new users, Ubuntu can't even touch the type of deep
support that Debian currently provides. Ubuntu is wrong for people
who want to really work/tweak a system and keep installing
all kinds of new stuff.

But most computer never do upgrade their system. Upgraders
such as myself are a minority of computer users. I should do
a little extra up front work and install a pure Debian system
so that I can enter the Debian web of relationships.

So, like to upgrade and fix. Then, Debian.
Might install a package on occasion. Ubuntu.

> - One look at Ward makes me kind of doubt it.

Who's Ward?