[kwlug disc.] Re: sdf gossip (was: Home e-mail server vs. freeshell.org?)

[Cedric Puddy]

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On 11-Jun-07, at 9:49 AM, Paul Nijjar wrote:

> On Sun, 10 Jun 2007, Unsolicited wrote:
>> Much cheaper. AFAIK. I'm never going to want 50 mailboxes, but I do
>> want more than 5. And I'm trying to get out of ISP/vendor lock in.  
>> I'm
>> going to have to change ISP's, and I only want to have to go through
>> the e-mail account notifications/changes once.
>
> 	SDF has been around for 20 years now, which is one reason I went  
> for the service. Having said that, I don't have a huge amount of  
> confidence that they will be able to stay operational indefinitely  
> -- the rent for their server rooms is enormous, and they keep  
> buying these really expensive machines.

I'm not sure I know what you mean, Paul -- I've been an SDF user for  
years, and was always impressed by their frugal nature...  I've  
pulled together some info below, and see what you think.  (Or maybe  
you have more recent news that I haven't heard yet? :)

I'm looking at http://sdf.lonestar.org/index.cgi?tour -- as best I  
can tell, they started going Alpha around 2000, but didn't get really  
hardcore about it until 2003 -- eg: when it was pretty clear that  
Alphas had reached the end of their roadmap, and dirt cheap to good  
causes.  The most recent pictures are 2006.

The whole system fits in one rack, looks like it could get by on one  
or two 15A outlets.

Checking my email achives, it would appear from an email from Stephen  
Jones of SDF that they paid approx $655/ea for the DS10L machines in  
2005 (for the use that they'll get out of them -- that seems quite a  
deal) - they appear to have picked up 20 or more of them.

The only significant outlay that I can see is the purchase of a 28  
disk array of 36Gb 15k RPM disks, but for a massively multi-user  
system, that's pretty much exactly what you need to avoid really  
nasty user experience.

Their serial console stuff is all recycled Livingston Portmaster 2  
boxes (you haven't been able to give those away for since around  
1998, so they were likely free).

Rental for 1 rack is not all that expensive, and I can't see any way  
to introduce cheaper, solid hardware.

Their donation levels are available by typing "pledge" at the prompt:

- ------------
QUARTER     2003     2004     2005     2006     2007
- -----------------------------------------------------
     1st:     3382      472      520     1262      764
     2nd:      474      726      911      309     1058
     3rd:      479      990      544      714        0
     4th:      397      811     6353      813        0
- -----------------------------------------------------
   Total:     4732     2999     8328     3098     1822
- ------------

That's the donations received since 2003 -- they seem stable enough,  
and when they went and specifically asked for money to buy new  
hardware (2005) they got a good response.  Not really any room for  
anything expensive though.  When you add it revenue from various  
services, I expect it would probably be a sustainable, if no-frills,  
sort of level.

>> Yeah, I see that. Can't hardly blame them, I suppose. If you look at
>> join (http://sdf.lonestar.org/index.cgi?join), they're really not
>> asking for a lot.
> 	No. Their costs are high and they are trying to keep the service  
> running, so it is reasonable that SDF is not quite the "pay once  
> and not worry any more" service I would have liked.

When I got my account, I sent them a one-time fee of $40 USD, and  
haven't been pressured since (I'm an "ARPA" member -- according to  
the rate sheet at http://sdf.lonestar.org/index.cgi?join that price  
is still valid).   The upcharges for domain hosting and VPM seem fair.

To put in perspective, and standard hosting company these days  
(ourselves included) can give you the ability to add/remove/self  
manage email, etc -- typical prices range from $5/mo and up.  SDF  
will do it for less than $2/mo for email alone (their webhosting  
price is more typical).

For a company with an interesting twist on the webhost market, check  
out http://nearlyfreespeach.net -- their model is that they earn  
their money as you transfer bits, and they don't charge much at all  
for bits... :)

- -Cedric


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    Cedric Puddy, IS Director            cedric at thinkers.org
      PGP Key Available at:              http://www.thinkers.org/cedric


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